Public meetings rarely rank atop most people’s list of exciting times, but those who follow the travails of the Oklahoma County Criminal Justice Authority are sometimes rewarded with moments worth paying for, even if admission to the meetings is free.
In a dizzying, sometimes shambolic, two-hour meeting Nov. 10, the body commonly known as the “jail trust” filled two key leadership positions, had one member accused of being transphobic in connection to his recent arrest, and saw another walk out mid-meeting to resign.
When county leaders created the jail trust to take over day-to-day operations of the troubled detention center in July 2020, the machinations of Monday’s meeting likely would not have been on anyone’s vision board. But jail trust meetings have been eventful before.
In early 2021, members of the public had to be separated by deputies in an altercation that involved a racial slur used by a member of the audience toward Jabee Williams, an OKC artist and entrepreneur. Around the same time, the trust had to review an embarrassing voicemail left accidentally by then-jail administrator Greg Williams. Other meetings have featured obscenities and protests, while the trust’s membership has become a revolving door of appointment and departure featuring prominent members of the community.
When it was conceived, the Oklahoma County jail trust had been intended to provide transparency and competent management to what was already an aging, deeply troubled facility that the Oklahoma County Sheriff’s Office had run for its entire 30-year history.
But those troubles have continued, with the jail becoming infamously deadly. All but two of the trust’s nine members, Oklahoma County Sheriff Tommie Johnson and District 3 Commissioner Myles Davidson, are volunteers not paid by the county. There have been six chairpersons, including Joe Allbaugh, who served in that capacity during two separate stints before stepping down a second time in May. In all, there have been about 30 trust members since its inception five years ago. The jail has also had four CEOs during that time, with the latest, Paul Timmons, resigning in September amid controversy over an alleged physical confrontation involving two staff members.
For their trouble, trust members are forced to navigate an underfunded jail constantly starved for competent staff and a storm of criticism from members of the public as they address what must feel like an endless, whack-a-mole loop of problems.
Holman named the latest jail trust chairman
Citing other time commitments, Steve Buck stepped down as chairman of the jail trust Nov. 10. Buck, who this summer called for a self-evaluation of the trust’s activities and effectiveness, said he will remain on the trust through the conclusion of his term, which ends April 30.
Oklahoma County jail trust members then chose Jim Holman to be their next chairman. Longtime trust member Derrick Scobey, a pastor who had been suggested as a potential chairman candidate, will serve as vice chairman.
Holman, who ran unsuccessfully for Ward 6 of the OKC City Council in 2019, is a retired car dealer who has been on the trust for about six months. He has spent much of that time trying to learn operational details and budget realities, visiting the jail regularly to meet with staff.
“There are a lot of dedicated people working at the jail, and I didn’t know that when I became a trust member only six months ago,” Holman said in an interview following the Nov. 10 meeting. “In those six months, I’ve learned a great deal. And I’ve become passionate about something [for which] I can see that there is a better day, and we’re working toward that better day.”
While he has not worked in government or corrections, Holman said he believes his past life running businesses and holding leadership roles will help him adapt quickly. Perhaps the most serious issue facing the trust is the number of deaths at the jail. The facility has seen nearly 60 detainees die since the trust took over about five years ago.
“I do have experience running multifaceted things,” he said. “So, at least I have that ability or that experience to grasp what needs to be done. There are a lot of moving parts over there, and we’re going to take them and look at them one at a time. And starting with where we think we are the weakest, where we’re criticized most, and if we can fix one thing and move on to another, it gets better. It’s not a fast process, and we’re not going to make promises we can’t keep. But it’s doable, and we’re going to attack it and not think about anything else but fixing it.”
Asked about the high turnover rate among members of the Oklahoma County jail trust, Holman said a variety of factors have contributed.
“What I’ve learned is many people have come on here and had a whole lot of other things going on in their lives,” he said. “If you’re going to do what needs to be done, in my opinion, it’s going to be a bigger time commitment. And I would imagine if we interviewed those people and asked them why, it’s going to get down to making decisions about their time management, where they felt like their priorities were. For me, I have the time to do it, so I’m hopeful I can make a difference.”
Holman acknowledged public criticism has likely played a role in high turnover on the trust since its inception.
“It has to, I’m sure,” he said. “We’re human. None of us likes to be criticized. So I would say, yes, it probably does to some extent.”
Some of that criticism has been unfair, Holman said, such as the Oklahoma County Detention Center being referred to as the “deadliest jail in America.”
“There is a great deal of information that is shared that is factually not provable,” he argued. “To take the opposite side of it, to look at it from the other side — let me prove it’s this, or let me prove it’s not that — and those proofs aren’t out there. They’re just repeated a lot. So, therefore, it sounds like it’s true, when in fact, if we had to go prove it, we couldn’t. So I sort of want to take things one issue at a time and not worry too much about what people are saying.”
Among the biggest challenges facing Holman and the trust is the Oklahoma County Jail’s contract with the City of OKC, which does not operate its own detention center. Frustration with the city’s involvement — or lack thereof — in addressing the jail’s challenges has simmered for years. As evidence, consider that annual contract negotiations regularly stall and leave the parties in somewhat of a legal limbo. Currently, there has not been a contract in place since the last fiscal year ended nearly six months ago.
Kimrey gets permanent nod
After the departure of Paul Timmons, the Oklahoma County Criminal Justice Authority named Tim Kimrey interim jail administrator, a position it made permanent Nov. 10. Kimrey joined the jail’s staff in 2022 and served as its training director prior to the promotion.
People arrested by OKCPD make up the biggest percentage of the jail’s population by a large margin. Of the roughly 1,500 people in the jail currently, more than 1,000 detainees were arrested by the OKC agency, according to numbers provided by the jail trust.
Both the county and city have been at an impasse on getting a new deal done, though negotiations reportedly continue over how much the city should pay the county to house its arrestees. Under past contracts, the city has compensated the county at a flat rate for the year instead of per-day, per-detainee payments.
“I’d love to see the city and county be a little friendlier to one another,” Holman said. “And it would include that contract. But I think the biggest problem we have is money, and that’s an easy thing to point to.”
Indeed, Oklahoma County commissioners often note that their county is the only one in the state without some sort of sales tax dedicated to public safety and jail operations. Holman said if the Oklahoma County Jail had more funding for operations, he would target staffing issues. The facility is constantly looking for new staff willing to brave the brutal work environment.
“Staffing issues would get fixed,” Holman said when asked what he would do with a bigger budget. “There are other issues. We have an old facility. But even if we build a new one — if the Tooth Fairy gave us the money tonight — we’d have two or three years that we have to operate the current jail.”
Oklahoma County residents approved a $260 million bond in 2022 to build a new jail. Since then, the cost of that facility has ballooned to more than $600 million, leaving county commissioners considering the idea of a county sales tax to bridge the roughly $350 million gap. Under some versions of the idea, a portion of the sales tax would shift toward funding ongoing operations after construction bonds are repaid. Such a proposal has been discussed as possibly going before voters in April, though specifics of a plan have yet to be finalized, and a lingering criminal investigation against a current county commissioner has only complicated the politics.
AJ Griffin leaves meeting, resigns from the jail trust
AJ Griffin, a former Republican state senator from Guthrie who now serves as CEO of the Potts Family Foundation, joined the trust last year. Underscoring the upheaval common for the body, however, Griffin stepped down after the Nov. 10 jail trust meeting, which she left halfway through when Ferlin Kearns, a member of the jail’s citizens advisory board, accused her of improperly holding a seat on the trust.
“We’ve got members on this trust that are not residents of Oklahoma County. They are not citizens of Oklahoma County, which is a direct violation of Oklahoma law,” Kearns said. “This trust was set up pursuant to Title 60 of the Oklahoma statutes. Title 60 provides that a trust must comply with all provisions of Title 60 and any other sections of law. Another section of law that it must comply with is Title 19. Title 19 is very clear: The appointed members shall be members of the county and shall not be elected officials. We’ve got to fix this. We can’t have members of this trust who are not residents of Oklahoma County. We have to fix that.”
Kearns did not specify which statute required a member of a jail trust to live within the county. Established by the Legislature in 2006, Title 19, Section 513.2 — titled “Duties of Public Trust, Private Owner or Management Entity Contracting to Operate Jail, Holding or Detention Facility” — does not specify any qualifications for members of a jail trust created “by contract.”
As a result, Kearns appears to have been referring to Chapter 21C of Title 19, which was passed in 1994 to allow for the creation of a jail trust by a vote of county residents. Under that chapter, Title 19, Section 904.2 specifies “the appointed members shall be residents of the county and shall not be elected officials.” But Oklahoma County’s jail trust was not created under that statute. Instead, it was formed with a contract approved by the Board of County Commissioners without a vote of the people, a detail criticized by some at the time.
Nonetheless, Kearns’ remarks had an impact. Griffin, who had just arrived as the meeting was in progress, suddenly gathered her belongings, whispered something to Buck and left.
Asked about her departure, Griffin confirmed she had resigned from the embattled body, opening yet another vacancy on the nine-member trust.
“I live in Logan County and have always lived in Logan County,” Griffin said in a statement. “The commissioners believed that I was eligible to volunteer. The ambush at the meeting was the only indication ever given me that my volunteering my time to the county wasn’t welcome. I have other important work to attend to and wish the county good luck addressing the needs of county detention center detainees.”
Griffin later texted a photo of the trust’s indenture which shows that, on June 10, 2019, the trust voted to expand eligible trustees from those who are residents of the county to also allow those “employed full-time in Oklahoma County.”
However, Kearns told trust members that when the trust indenture was amended to change residency and the requirement that elected officials not serve on the trust, it never went before county commissioners for final approval, meaning that the trust is still operating under the rules by which it was established.
Regardless, Griffin said she has ongoing concerns about the future of the jail.
“As the only woman left on the trust and the only member of the trust familiar with the unique needs of incarcerated mothers, I am extremely concerned about the future direction of service delivery,” she said. “Jail operations are not only about the short time most individuals are detained. It’s about working to ensure the community meets the needs of all of its citizens.
“As usual, political activists prioritize politics over the needs of the community.”
‘A line item for a rabbit?’ Derrick Scobey accused of transphobia
While Griffin’s departure normally might have marked a meeting’s most unusual moment, attendees of the Nov. 10 gathering had plenty more to witness.
Trust member Derrick Scobey, a pastor at OKC’s Ebenezer Baptist Church and the owner of Excalibur Executive Black Car Service, was arrested in Edmond two days prior for refusing to leave a clothing store where his wife, Angela, said she was groped by an employee.
“He proceeded to take his open hand, palmed and rubbed my wife’s butt,” Scobey told KOCO. “She moved forward away from him, and he still came up behind her and started touching her shoulders, trying to fix her blouse or whatever that is.”
Scobey characterized the employee as a man dressed in women’s clothing. He posted a video recording of the encounter with the store employee on his personal Facebook page.
“Even if you are a woman, you can’t touch another woman’s butt,” Scobey, an Edmond resident, told the employee.
The employee was not arrested, but Scobey was after he refused to leave and the employee called the Edmond Police Department. Scobey told the EPD officer to Google him to learn of his prior arrest while protesting a scheduled execution, and he assured the officer there was a reason he wanted to be detained.
“Meaning, you just don’t understand the method to my madness when I do things,” Scobey said before being arrested.
In the subsequent days, Scobey posted repeatedly about the incident on Facebook, twice changing his cover photo to that of a chess board.
Scobey has filed a complaint with Edmond police for sexual battery of his wife by the employee. In body camera footage, Scobey referred to the employee as a cross-dresser, according to a report by The Oklahoman.
Frequent jail trust critic Mark Faulk spoke during public comment at the Nov. 10 meeting, and he accused Scobey of misgendering the person who had the encounter with Scobey’s wife at the White House Black Market location.
“I watched Pastor Scobey, who had an incident, and I’m not questioning the validity there, and what happened to your wife up in Edmond, but what I am questioning is your multiple derogatory remarks against trans people on your page. You kept referring to a trans woman as a man in a dress repeatedly,” Faulk told trust members. “Now, trans people are at a much higher rate in that jail. Black trans women is the highest demographic of people arrested in the country. I don’t believe someone who has an obvious transphobia is the person we want as the chair of the trust.”
Later, Scobey attempted to clarify his views on transgender people in a meandering and, at times, odd exchange with jail administrator Tim Kimrey, who was delivering his monthly report to the trust. In an effort to make his point, he posed a hypothetical scenario and referenced two fellow members of the trust.
“If a person is booked in and they say that they are white, and they look like me, Mr. (James) Johnson, and Sheriff (Tommie) Johnson, and they say they are white, what do we do with that?” Scobey asked. “I’m not luring you into this. I’m needing for you to share so I can share and make a point.”
Kimrey, seemingly confused by the question, responded: “I don’t think we’ve had someone who has actually done that.”
Scobey replied, “I’m not saying if they have, but what if they did?”
Kimrey tried to shut down the line of questioning.
“I’m not going to dictate to somebody what their race is going to be, if they are adamant about being white or asian or black or any other ethnicity,” Kimrey said.
Scobey continued, bringing animals into the hypothetical.
“But what if they told you they were white, and they look like us, let me tell you the face that I am going to give them,” Scobey said. “What if they say they are a rabbit? Would you have a line item for a rabbit?”
Kimrey said staff would note that, but the jail doesn’t have a line item for people who say they are animals.
The exchange continued with Scobey telling Kimrey and fellow trust members he believes the Bible guides him when it comes to gender issues.
“The book that I hold to, it lets me know male, female,” Scobey said. “Nobody can make me say anything that the book tells me I ought not to live by. So, I live in an Oklahoma state and country that you can’t make anybody say — I can’t say to (Commissioner) Myles (Davidson), you tell me you’re a rabbit, I’m going to say, ‘Myles, no, you’re not. You are a man, and that’s it.'”
Scobey continued referencing Davidson, who remains under investigation for allegations of sexual misconduct himself.
“Myles cannot make me say anything other than that,” Scobey said. “All Myles’ homeboys, all his hunting buddies could come with shotguns and say, ‘You better address Myles as a rabbit.’ I’ll say, ‘You’re out of your mind, and I’m not going to address him as a rabbit. Case closed.'”
Scobey, who lost his campaign for an open Oklahoma County clerk position as a Democrat in 2023, told The Oklahoman he has no ill will toward the LGBTQ community.
“I love God. I love everybody — I love the LGBTQ community and all of that,” he said. “But, you can not make me address anybody other than the way I choose. You don’t get to make that choice for me.”
The jail trust’s next meeting is slated for 1:30 p.m. Monday, Dec. 8.
