Trading jabs over who is being more honest with voters while disagreeing about abortion, taxation and education, Senate District 47 hopefuls Kelly Hines and Erin Brewer outlined their visions for the open Edmond and Oklahoma City seat in a debate Wednesday night.
While he did not attend the debate at Francis Tuttle Technology Center, SD 47 resident and State Superintendent of Public Instruction Ryan Walters’ controversial tenure became an early wedge between the candidates’ education stances, with Brewer bringing Walters up almost immediately.
“We’re going to start making it about somebody who backs me, which is going to be interesting,” Hines said. “We’re going to talk about Ryan Walters a lot of tonight, and I’m looking forward to that, and hopefully we’re not going to turn this into something about somebody that’s not even on ballot, but we’ll see how that goes.”
Brewer repeatedly noted that Hines has called Walters “admirable.” Brewer, the race’s Democrat, included the point in her opening and closing statements, and she was blunt in her opinion on Walters’ tenure, the expanding list of litigation he faces and her desire to “hold him accountable” as a state senator.
“I don’t think there’s a single thing that’s admirable about Ryan Walters,” Brewer said. “I think he’s failing us in every way. He has mismanaged millions of tax dollars, he’s accruing $20,000 a month in legal fees alone for the multiple lawsuits that have been filed against him (…) He hasn’t done a single thing to advance students’ achievement in Oklahoma in his two years in office.”
Hines, who won SD 47’s three-way Republican primary this year, said although he has praised Walters’ political forthrightness, that does not mean he agrees with every policy the state superintendent has put forward. In particular, Hines said he does not support Walters’ controversial legislative request for $3 million to place Bibles in Oklahoma classrooms. Brewer also decried the proposal as “unconstitutional and illegal.”
“I want my clergy, my church and the parents to actually be teaching my kids about religion,” Hines said. “Leave the school to reading, writing, arithmetic and history — maybe civics and a little bit of computer science — and keep those two separate.”
On his description of Walters as “admirable,” Hines said he values any politician who is not afraid to say what they really believe. He said he agreed with the state superintendent’s stance on not teaching “DEI,” not wanting “boys in girls’ bathrooms” and keeping specifically defined pornographic material out of schools.
“I like that he’s got his spine,” Hines said. “You know, it’s admirable that a politician will actually stand up and say what he thinks. That doesn’t mean I always agree with him.”
Beyond Walters, both candidates highlighted what they considered more controversial supporters of the opposing campaign.
In her final remarks, Brewer noted Hines has received support from The Lion’s Den, an Edmond-based organization that has hosted conservative politicians like Walters and Oklahoma Sen. Nathan Dahm (R-Broken Arrow). Brewer described the group as a “Christian nationalist organization.”
Hines, who gave his closing remarks before Brewer, responded to the claim after leaving the stage.
“I’m very proud of the support that I’ve gotten from The Lion’s Den. They’re a grassroots organization, they’re far from being radical,” Hines said. “What I didn’t get to bring up is that [Brewer is] supported by Susan McCann, who is a part of Our Revolution Oklahoma, which is a Bernie Sanders organization and very socialist. If we’re going to start saying we are who supports us, I would’ve loved to have said something about being supported by her.”
Common ground found at the schoolyard
Hines and Brewer did find some common ground on the need for vast improvements in Oklahoma’s floundering public education system. Hines likened the path to addressing Oklahoma’s struggles to how state infrastructure is planned in multi-year stages.
“We’ve been attacking it one year at a time. You know, our infrastructure, the way we do it in Oklahoma, has an eight-year plan,” Hines said. “We’ve got to do something like that with education where we have a five- to eight-year plan with goals and benchmarks to where we can actually improve the educational outcomes.”
By establishing a long-term plan for improving public education outcomes, the state would benefit from a more knowledgeable workforce with the desire and ability to remain in Oklahoma and stop year-to-year “brain drain,” Hines said.
Brewer emphasized the immediate need to place qualified teachers in public classrooms as a first step forward.
“We have got to do a better job of resourcing and equipping our teachers so that they are successful in their classrooms with their students, and that is the No. 1 challenge — for reading, math, history, all the subjects — is we’ve got to have qualified, quality educators working with our kids,” Brewer said. “It’s really hard to feel successful as a teacher when you’re dealing with behavior challenges that are new and different than they’ve ever been before, when your resources are limited, and when you’re in the political environment that we live in, where teachers are often, frankly, under attack.”
Related to improving student outcomes, Hines said he would support legislation for a statewide ban on cell phones in classrooms, with certain exceptions. Brewer said she would not support such a ban, acknowledging that cell phones are classroom distractions but saying the policy should be left to local school districts.
Senate District 47 candidates discuss abortion
Both candidates indicated they would support giving Oklahomans the opportunity to vote for potentially expanding abortion access in the state, where it is currently illegal except if the mother’s life is endangered.
“We need to teach people more about preventing unwanted pregnancies,” Hines said. “I’ve seen some accusations and recent ads that say I’m completely against abortion. I agree that you’ve got to make exceptions for the life of the mother, and I have a hard time, if somebody’s been brutalized, telling them that they have to have a baby. That’s come from me having a daughter.”
Brewer said she would consider even further exceptions, noting abortion should be an option for mothers if a pregnancy would not necessarily be fatal but would still be detrimental to their physical health. Asked if she supported broader general access to abortion up to a certain number of weeks, Brewer did not directly answer.
“That’s something I think we could determine with physicians and women at the table together,” Brewer said. “I’m sure we could come to a conclusion on that.”
Hines said he felt Brewer was trying to distance herself from the national Democratic Party’s platform on abortion, which supports broad freedom of choice for terminating pregnancies without specified limitations.
“I just wanted to point out that what she’s trying to avoid is saying she agrees with the Democratic platform that the abortion is up to the mother all the way up to nine months,” Hines said.
Brewer’s supporters in the audience reacted audibly to the remark, many saying “no” repeatedly.
“I think the audience just spoke for me, that is not what I’m saying, I’ve been very clear about how I feel,” Brewer said.
Brewer also pushed back on Hines’ explanation of his stance, noting he had signed a pledge indicating he supports Oklahoma’s current law outlawing abortion in almost all cases. However, Hines responded that the pledge did not mean he would oppose potential changes to the law, but instead indicated his support to enforce “any law that’s on the books.”
Brewer: State budget too tight for tax cuts
Outgoing Senate President Pro Tempore Greg Treat (R-OKC), whom Hines and Brewer seek to replace, stood at odds with Gov. Kevin Stitt’s desire to pursue further income tax cuts during the 2023 and 2024 legislative sessions.
Asked if she would support a quarter-point income tax reduction should state revenue remain consistent, Brewer said she would not do so in 2025.
With so many needs around the state, including in the public education and infrastructure spheres, Brewer said she could not justify doing away with large portions of available state funds.
“I’m all for looking strategically at our revenue, but we are way too close to multiple revenue failures in our state to begin just slashing income tax with no plan for revenue,” Brewer said. “It does take funds to provide schools and infrastructure and broadband and workforce development, and we’ve got to take a hard look at where we’re not able to meet needs in our state right now.”
Throughout his campaign, Hines has addressed tax reform, including a potential “stair-step” approach to reducing income tax rates over time.
“I am for lowering it if not eliminating state income tax completely. We’ve got to be good stewards of Oklahomans’ money,” Hines said. “I’m also for taking it a little bit further and looking at our senior citizens and eliminating property tax on those folks that are receiving Social Security. They never really own their home, and I think we’ve really got to look at that one as well.”
Earlier in the debate, Hines said he wished Treat would have been more receptive to Stitt’s call for a special session on the matter.
“I thought that we should have actually sat down and talked about it instead of adjourning like the Senate did without discussing it,” Hines said.
Candidates differ on housing issues
With housing costs rising nationwide, both candidates acknowledged Oklahoma has also seen the cost of living increase. In Edmond, portions of which Senate District 47 represents, multi-family housing in particular is regularly opposed by residents.
If elected, Brewer said she sees a place for state government to help municipalities guide housing development to ensure there are units available at varying price points.
“I think the state has a role to support municipalities in the way they’re overseeing development to ensure that multiple price-point types of housing is being built in our areas,” Brewer said. “We need to understand as citizens that it takes apartments and rentals and homes of various sizes to support the kinds of communities that we love to live in.”
Hines argued that state government has no place dictating local housing developments.
“I don’t like government involvement when it doesn’t need to be there. (…) I like the market to decide what we need, and that’s how the American way is supposed to be, and how housing should be as well,” Hines said. “So I don’t advocate for the Senate trying to put in apartments where they shouldn’t be or are not going to be in the best place for them.”
Asked about a peculiarity that has dogged him throughout his SD 47 campaign, Hines reiterated prior statements that he does not know why the Oklahoma Department of Corrections’ database has a “DOC number” associated with his name and birthday.
“I’d never even heard about this number until about three months ago when it came up in the campaign. So it’s from 40 years ago, you’re right, some underage drinking type thing, but I’ve never been a felon, I’ve never been incarcerated, I’ve never had a DUI — whatever other rumors are out there,” Hines said, noting that he achieved the rank of colonel in the U.S. Army and received numerous security clearances during his decades of service. “I will gladly stand on my 34 years of honorable service in and out of combat to the United States of America.”
Hines said DOC’s advice was to “hire a lawyer and go to court,” and he said the situation has made him wonder how many other people might have faced a similar “clerical error” that could have prevented them from getting a job or passing a background check.
While Brewer said the unusual situation means voters are “not sure about Kelly Hines,” that he “flip flops” on topics and that “I’m not sure we can totally trust the things Kelly Hines tells us.”
Hines fired back.
“I’m the only one up here that has actually sworn an oath to the Constitution of the United States,” he said. “So if you want to impinge on my honor, good luck with that. I’ve got [countless] people that would like to talk to you about that one.”
Hines and Brewer will appear on the ballot for Senate District 47 residents during the Tuesday, Nov. 5, general election. Early voting for the election begins Thursday, Oct. 31.
Watch the full Senate District 47 debate
